Full Coverage
I was changing in my closet when it was invaded by my daughter. The following conversation ensued, inspired by Calvin Klein.
[BEGINNING OF RECORDING] D: You don't' really care about that when you're at home.
M: Yeah, so you like to stay private even when you're at home?
D: And anywhere, basically.
M: And so you don't like a cheeky boyshort? 'Cause my cheeks [slaps cheeks] hang out?
D: [laughing] I don't like your type of underwear because you have them stuck inside, and even when you have the kind that's not stuck inside, you can still see the cheeks. So I just pick my underwear, to like, cover the whole, whole, whole thing.
M: You don't like to show your cheeks.
D: I don't like to see, well I don't want anybody to see my private things— private stuff I have on my body. Anything that's private to me, I don't want to show anybody.
M: Why is that?
D: I don't know.
M: Is it special to you?
D: I don't have anything special but I'll just be right back. [exits the room] Okay, I tried to get my underwear the color you have, and we can check the behind.
M: Ooh, yeah. What do you think about this? [holds up thong]
D: Yeah, I don't like that. No, because it goes too much in, but this [holds up her unmentionables] covers your whole butt cheeks.
M: You prefer underwear that covers your full entire, everything.
D: Yes. Like, if I pull my pants down, you can't see my butt cheeks. [demonstrates]
M: Yeah.
D: [laughs self-consciously] I really didn't want to do that.
M: Sorry. Where do you think that comes from? Like, wanting to be private.
D: I don't know. Just because, when some people see private things, they don't want to go near, because they don't want to see the private things. So sometimes they stay away from people, if they show private things, and they don't come to you. So this way I like to keep it safe, so people will play with me.
M: So you think people play with you more if you are more modest and keep private?
D: Yeah, keeping private. Because when friends show their belly buttons, that's private to me, and then they don't start playing with that friend anymore because they just showed their belly button, so I don't do that.
M: What if it changes? What if somebody showed their belly button and everybody would want to play with that person all of the sudden? Would you change how you dressed?
[daughter shakes head ‘no’]
Why not?
D: I just. It just feels like [pause] I just want to keep this myself, just in case, because other stuff can happen sometimes. Because on other days they might change, and they might, they might get bored of them, and then, and then too many people start showing their belly all the time, and then one day they'll be like "that's not modesty at all! I don't think I wanna be with this person."
M: Do you value being modest even if there's no one around? At home, nobody's here, you know? And you still like to cover up.
D: Oh, yeah, about that! Not the same but just [pause] I just like to keep my things that are private to myself, because some people might think it's weird. I just think about what would happen at school if I did that and think "That's not true modesty." So I don't want to do it at home either.
M: Does it make you feel, safe? Or, in control, maybe?
D: [confused] No, like, you mean, like it's showing modesty or of it's not?
M: Yeah, when you cover up at home, does it make you feel protected?
D: [nods yes] Because. Because once when my brother opened my door and I just had my underwear on, I was like "Stop! Stop it. Go!"
M: What did you feel like when he came into your room and you were naked?
D: Scared. Like I didn't have protection. Think if you are a knight, and people are shooting you, and your armor fell off. You're so scared because you didn't have your armor on, and one of the persons are about to shoot you. That would be scary, right? That's what it feels like to me with modesty. When people, when people go in my room, I feel like that because I don't have modesty on me. And then I just feel like I'm a knight with my armor off, only it's just clothes. And then people are about to shoot you, like people are about to look at me and laugh at me. That's why I like modesty.
Okay, I'll show you one more thing.
[Exits room, then returns with stuffed animals]
Narwhal basically doesn't care about modesty, because he doesn't have any clothes on. So does bunny. But do you see this doll? She cares about modesty, just like me. I feel like no one would want to be friends anymore, or family anymore, without modesty. There is shame in that. Don't know how to explain it, okay, Mom?
M: I wonder, if everybody at school started showing their belly button though—
D: I would still not, because the teacher knows you're not supposed to do that. And if people have gone crazy, she has a microphone and she can blow into it, and it sounds very scary. She did it at four square once. I was, I was, I was, my friends, Ellie and Isa and my friends in my class, well, we were not doing anything, but the rest of the class were talking, and shouting. And then she had to blow the microphone.
M: What if the teacher was showing her belly? What would you think of it then?
D: Oh, I would still think that wouldn't be nice. You're not supposed to do that.
M: Well, what do you think about me? I'm showing my belly around the house all the time. I'm naked all the time.
D: I don't care about my family, but I care about school.
M: So it is different if it's at school?
D: Yeah, than school.
M: But when you're at home, you don't change. You still stay the same.
[Son enters the room]
D: I don't change how I am much. But you guys probably do more. Like, if you're "somewhere", if you're "somewhere", you want to keep modesty, right?
M: Yeah.
D: "All the time" is "somewhere" for me. So I'm going to keep modesty all the time.
M: Oh. So what do you think about people who aren't the same all the time and they change depending on the environment that they're in, or the place that they're in?
D: Do you mean, they change every single day all the time?
S: [interjecting without context] Then how do you change your clothes if you didn't change?
D: We already talked about that.
M: So, do you think it's important to be the same? To practice the same virtues all the time, no matter who's watching, or no matter where you are?
D: What?
[Interrupted by the air conditioner fan]
M: What do you think about me being the kind of person that changes how I act at home by not being modest, and then I am modest at work?
D: Oh, that's good for me. Okay, just so you know. My family [pause] I don't really care if they don't have modesty, really. So, if you're walking around the house with no clothes on, I don't really care because it just changes, it just changes where I go. So if I'm at the store, and you're not showing modesty, then I would probably be mad at you. But if you're here without clothes on, I won't be mad at you or anything. So it just kind of changes. It depends where I am. Yeah.
M: Yeah, but what if we were living in a place where women didn't wear shirts— nobody was wearing a shirt. Would it be weird if we wore shirts?
D: It wouldn't be weird for me because even if they wanna be naked, they, they choose what they want. I choose what I want. I don't care if other people aren't like me. I just care about my modesty.
M: Huh, I love that.
S: [exasperated] This conversation could have been over, like, five years ago. She could have just said "I like to wear shirts." And then, there— conversation's over.
M: What do you think?
S: [excitedly] One of my dreams is to walk around the streets naked. I still wanna go to one of those naked beaches. Sooo bad. Oh! And pee on any tree that I want.
M: [laughs] Okay, time for you to go. We are going to talk about armor and friends a little more…
[END OF RECORDING]